And the forum wasn't another phony "town hall" - it was Twitter. I've posted the entire exchange below, with some editorial comments of mine throw in.
I don't describe this flame war as "astonishing" only because of Christie's lack of candor and twisting of the facts; we've seen this before plenty of times. Nor would I say his evasiveness in the face of a direct question all that surprising as well; non-answering has become the standard operating procedure of the modern conservative pol.
I would even say I wasn't too surprised at the rhetorical ass-kicking he got from savethefreezeNJ; in a fair forum against someone conversant in the facts, he is always going to lose the argument.
No, what really made my jaw drop is Christie's utter disregard for the dignity of the high office he holds. This is a man who not only engages in ad hominem attacks - he clearly relishes them. His first line of attack is to go after the motives of those who oppose him. This not only spares him from having to answer with a more compelling argument; it gives him a bizarre personal satisfaction that shines through even in the 140-character limits of his tweets.
Think I'm kidding?
@GovChristie proof of failure in 92% of NJ school in great shape? 1 of top states nationally by multiple measures? Try facts not hyperbole.
That is an amazing statement for a governor to make - to question the commitment of opponent to children's success in school (let alone the teachers union). Is this how Christie believes the chief executive of a big state like New Jersey should comport himself? Is this the sort of tone he wants to set for the next three years?@stopthefreezeNJ guess u & the union only care about success 4 some kids. I care about it 4 all kids & put them first, not union $ demands.
Governor Christie, you are not some anonymous blogger. You're not a talk radio blowhard. You're not some backbencher in the Assembly or an obscure county official. You are the Governor of one of the most populous states in the union. You represent all of us. What is wrong with you?
The entire transcript follows. If you're new to Twitter, understand that it flows from most recent to oldest post, so you're better off scrolling down to the bottom and reading backwards (sorry, I didn't have the time to put this in reverse order).
Oh, and a big "bravo/brava" to stopthefreezeNJ for standing up to Christie and skewering his nonsense.
Wednesday, January 19, 2011 - Read from bottom to top.
[
Sigh...]
Sigh...][Then why are the populations so different? Do you think there may be ways to get the populations you want without being blatant about it? I do.]GovChristie Governor ChristieAbout to deliver opening remarks at the Trenton screening of #WaitingforSuperman. I highly encourage everyone to see it
stopthefreezeNJ DEFEND NJ PUBLIC ED!@GovChristie your proposed solutions have spotty records of success at best. 92% of NJ schools proficient. Manufactured BS.
stopthefreezeNJ DEFEND NJ PUBLIC ED!How are Chris Christie's education cuts affecting you? Speak out tomorrow in Edison, 6-8:30 - Sen. Buono and... http://fb.me/SIKOIWK6
stopthefreezeNJ DEFEND NJ PUBLIC ED!@GovChristie and conveniently your VC pals will cash in on their New Markets Tax Credit. Answer: bad teachers in Nwk, good in Glen Rock?
stopthefreezeNJ DEFEND NJ PUBLIC ED!@GovChristie exactly right - so public schools will be full of kids w/behavior issues,special needs,checked out parents.All part of ur plan.
GovChristie Governor Christie@stopthefreezeNJ Ask the parents in our failing schools if YOUR policies are working for THEIR kids. Money is just one part. Change failure
[Again - there's no way to interpret this as an attack on the unions and not on the teachers.]GovChristie Governor Christie@stopthefreezeNJ Parents choose to apply for charters and the lottery picks who gets in, not the schools. Stop the spin, u know better.
stopthefreezeNJ DEFEND NJ PUBLIC ED!
[Funny!]GovChristie Governor Christie@stopthefreezeNJ Shared sacrifice, not union busting. While people in NJ are suffering, union says no to freeze or paying 4 med ins. Selfish
stopthefreezeNJ DEFEND NJ PUBLIC ED!@GovChristie warmed over? You compared schools who must take everyone with schools who select their students. Apples/oranges.
GovChristie Governor Christie@stopthefreezeNJ Unfortunately for you, the stale talking points & record of failure are on the union side of the ledger. Public gets it now
[The primary criticism of those who tout charter school success is that the populations in charters are not the same as the populations in surrounding neighborhood schools. Everyone who has studied this knows this is the debate. That he can't even muster up a weak response to a well-known criticism shows how little Christie cares about "winning" the argument. He's always right, and you don't care about kids, so: QED.]stopthefreezeNJ DEFEND NJ PUBLIC ED!
[Finland also has a homogeneous population with very little poverty. Comparing us to Finland has always been very, very dumb.]GovChristie Governor Christie@stopthefreezeNJ Just read it. Same old, warmed over union attacks sponsored by an institute named after union leader. Oh so objective! Thx
stopthefreezeNJ DEFEND NJ PUBLIC ED!@GovChristie you keep coming back to these stale talking points but demonstrate no educational acumen.
[Sigh. Again: if your goal, Chris, is to have a great teacher in every classroom, and to pay great teachers more, won't you have to raise the overall payroll of teachers in the state?stopthefreezeNJ DEFEND NJ PUBLIC ED!@GovChristie as for Newark/US - dumb question. No1 wants US to lag. u point to Finland - they have unions, tenure, & no hi stakes tests.
GovChristie Governor Christie@stopthefreezeNJ What is shaky? The futures of kids in Newark, Asbury Park, Paterson, Jersey City under failed system. We need change now.
stopthefreezeNJ DEFEND NJ PUBLIC ED!@GovChristie no, you did not. Here is a nice blog explaining just how flimsy that release was: http://shankerblog.org/?p=1646
And this nonsense about "free" medical insurance - it's part of a teacher's compensation. Which would you take: a job that pays you $50,000 with $15,000 worth of insurance, or job that pays $80,000, and you can buy your own insurance? When you cut insurance, you are cutting teacher pay - period. And if you say we need to get rid of bad teachers, how can you possibly replace them with better teachers when you want to pay them less?]
[That's really a great point. If the teacher is so important, then all teachers in rich districts rock, and all teachers in poor districts suck. Does that sound right to you? And do you really think those great teachers in rich districts would fare just as well in poor districts?]GovChristie Governor Christie@stopthefreezeNJ U don't like the answers, you just fight 4 the status quo--big raises, free med ins & lifetime job security 4 bad teachers
stopthefreezeNJ DEFEND NJ PUBLIC ED!@GovChristie bec the cornerstones of your "reform" agenda are shaky at best, yet u never have real answers for critics like @SchlFinance101.
GovChristie Governor Christie@stopthefreezeNJ I did. They r neither deceptive or meaningless. R u going 2 answer my question on America falling behind or Newark failure?
stopthefreezeNJ DEFEND NJ PUBLIC ED!@GovChristie do you plan on actually answering my question about the deceptive an meaningless statistics in that press release?
GovChristie Governor Christie@stopthefreezeNJ All districts would be better with reform. Districts like Newark need1 reform immediately b/c they r in crisis failing kids
GovChristie Governor Christie@stopthefreezeNJ America falling behind rest of world in education. It's because our system caters to the Econ/job security demands of union
[Don't know where came from. Problem with Twitter is you don't always see the other side of an exchange.]stopthefreezeNJ DEFEND NJ PUBLIC ED!@GovChristie your logic is bizarre - as you state it, therefore all the good teacher are in Mendham and Chatham, & the bad ones are in Nwk?
[Wow. I mean... wow.]GovChristie Governor Christie
stopthefreezeNJ DEFEND NJ PUBLIC ED!@GovChristie Ed "experts" also disagree strongly.Except those r ones who r actual educators,not tourists/pundits. @DianeRavitch @shankerblog
stopthefreezeNJ DEFEND NJ PUBLIC ED!@GovChristie u casually say u speak "truth" hoping no one stops to consider. ur "truth" disputed by those with actual Ed experience.
[Christie often hides behind the canard that he loves teachers, but hates the union; further, the union doesn't have teachers' best interests at heart. But read the above - he's clearly not attacking the "big raises and free med ins." of union officials - he's attacking the benefits of teachers. No one should let him get away with trying to make this distinction again.GovChristie Governor Christie@stopthefreezeNJ guess u & the union only care about success 4 some kids. I care about it 4 all kids & put them first, not union $ demands.
stopthefreezeNJ DEFEND NJ PUBLIC ED!@GovChristie proof of failure in 92% of NJ school in great shape? 1 of top states nationally by multiple measures? Try facts not hyperbole.
GovChristie Governor Christie@stopthefreezeNJ stand behind our policy. You don't like it, but educ experts do. 1 of 2 kids in Newark do not graduate. Is that success?
GovChristie Governor Christie@stopthefreezeNJ Proof is in the pudding. NJ has followed your theories for decades and we have proof of the failure all over NJ.
stopthefreezeNJ DEFEND NJ PUBLIC ED!@GovChristie why don't you respond re: the scientific merit of your claims first instead of playing tit-for-tat?
GovChristie Governor Christie@stopthefreezeNJ As Lawrence O'Donnell says "You are entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts." Not apologetic 4 speaking truth.
stopthefreezeNJ DEFEND NJ PUBLIC ED!@GovChristie again your answer are rich in rhetorical flourishes, thin on meaningful research. We are not fooled, parents won't be either.
GovChristie Governor Christie@stopthefreezeNJ What is old is the NJEA's $8m attack ads "for the kids" when they really protect their big raises & free med ins. Response?
Further, no teacher gets "big raises." As I've pointed out many, many times, the pay of teachers has historically fallen behind the average pay of workers in NJ; not just the pay of college-educated workers, but AVERAGE workers. And raises over the past year on new contracts is averaging 1.6% - sound "big" to you?]
[I address the info from the press release here.]
GovChristie Governor Christie@stopthefreezeNJ The word "choice" is a canard only 4 self-interested union ldrs. If u were parent with a child in a bad school, it is hope.
GovChristie Governor Christie@stopthefreezeNJ We r not factually incorrect, u just don't like that someone is finally discussing the fantasy the union has sold for yrs
stopthefreezeNJ DEFEND NJ PUBLIC ED!
stopthefreezeNJ DEFEND NJ PUBLIC ED!
stopthefreezeNJ DEFEND NJ PUBLIC ED!Contact ur NJ State reps today! Tell them VOTE NO on S1872. Fund public ed, not religious/private! Find ur reps fast: http://bit.ly/fO0OHZ
stopthefreezeNJ DEFEND NJ PUBLIC ED!@GovChristie Notice u have NO RESPONSE for shady/misleading content in press release. U didn't respond to my tweet,just dish partisan noise.
stopthefreezeNJ DEFEND NJ PUBLIC ED!@GovChristie your BOE member never heard of Abbott, press releases with meaningless use of "research" - you don't understand education.
stopthefreezeNJ DEFEND NJ PUBLIC ED!@GovChristie use of word "choice" is a canard & u know it. So private biz can look out for its interests but public employees cannot?
GovChristie Governor Christie@stopthefreezeNJ Shocking! Teachers union opposes more choice for parents. How much more transparently self-interested can the union get?
6 comments:
My favorite tweet, and one that could easily sum up this entire debate, as well as the "education" governor's entire service in office so far: "we are taking about Ed practices that work for kids, but you're talking about money."
If he had even once attempted to explain how it is that Newark has a disproportionate number of "bad" teachers while the wealthier suburbs get all the "good" teachers, I would maybe start to at least listen to something he has to say. My best idea is that EVERYONE who has a similar exchange with this guy start off by saying "ok, everytime the governor says 'it's all about protecting the salaries and not paying for medcial benefits' everybody stand up"...no one would ever get to sit down! But honestly, the only real response to that statement is "says you, just like I say your 'reforms' are not at all about improving education, but rather, about privatizing as much of it as you can to drive profits"....it's the same line of thinking. It is an opinion and nothing more. Apparently, in the governor's mind, he is right so there is no need to present actual facts, just opine away and everyone will fall in line. As a former paralegal, I seriously hope that isn't how he presented his arguments in court; for his legal reputation if nothing else, the man should be ashamed at his inability to present a convincing argument. It's sort of sad really.
One more quick thought as I realize I am a bit ramble-y tonight. Duke, thank you, once again, for being the voice of reason and basically confirming what I've secretly suspected all along. There has to be some way they are rigging the lotteries for the charters! If there isn't, it is really super duper dumb luck that the charters always end up with significantly less (just enough less to look legitimate) special ed kids, language learners, and free lunch kids (impoverished). Wow, that is some luck.
Oh and just a quick reminder since our governor conveniently forgets this in EVERY exchange on reform and failing schools: NEWARK TEACHERS ARE NOT PART OF THE NJEA. Thank you.
posted by Jamey from Leonia, NJ:
"And if you say we need to get rid of bad teachers, how can you possibly replace them with better teachers when you want to pay them less?"
THIS. Governor Christie simply cannot say how this will happen--how people will magically flock to the educational sectors AFTER the Christie admin has throughly marginalized teachers.
Guy's had a hard-on for the unions for years. Unfortunately, he has the fall-back position of explaining the exception as the rule.
No one should be allowed to say that benefits are 'free'. Health care and pensions are compensation in exactly the same way as salary. Teachers choose to purchase within a common health plan because they can negotiate higher quality insurance than they could purchase on the individual market. The benefits defined in existing contracts are no different from pay, they are how the district is compensating employees in return for their labor.
Thanks so much for putting this together. Neither I nor any close family/acquaintances are in NJ, so I've had only a passing familiarity with the situation there. The tweets alone wouldn't have clarified this issue for me, but your collection and assembly of the tweets, and addition of commentary, made this a great post. Masterfully done!
My memories of Christie go back to his days as federal District Attorney during the GWB Administration. Lots of unanswered questions there. I remained stunned and disappointed that the likes of Christie, Scott (FL), Walker (WI), Toomey (PA), and Kasich (OH) were actually voted into office. I have some hypotheses on the nature of our national psychopathology, but mostly I'm becoming more alarmed by its severity.
[Found you via link from B-J, fyi]
You may want to use the website Chirpstory to collect tweets like this. I understand you can rebuild the conversation in normal reading order there.
"GovChristie Governor Christie
@stopthefreezeNJ As Lawrence O'Donnell says "You are entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts." Not apologetic 4 speaking truth."
Funny thing is Lawrence O'Donnell didn't say that. It was Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan. Again, he needs to do his research.
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