I will protect your pensions. Nothing about your pension is going to change when I am governor. - Chris Christie, "An Open Letter to the Teachers of NJ" October, 2009

Sunday, January 30, 2011

My Dinner With Derrell

Another night - another Twitter war...

I've written before about Derrell Bradford, Executive Director of Excellent Education for Everyone (E3), and how he was appointed to Chris Christie's "Education Effectiveness Task Force," despite his complete lack of practical teaching experience, technical knowledge, or academic expertise.

You would think that a guy like Derrell and I don't have much in common; turns out we both had nothing better to do last night than engage in a Twitter exchange.

I've posted it below, but understand: trying to read a Twitter conversation is like trying to make sense of e. e. cummings translated into Martian. People keep jumping in, you don't know who is responding to what - it's a big mess. A couple of other posters including stopthefreezenj, frankbeard, and DefeatNJBullies jumped in, and the whole thing got a little chaotic. The fact is Twitter is a very bad forum on which to discuss this stuff.

I think I'm fair to Derrell in the transcription below, but you can always go to his own Twitter feed and judge for yourself. I kept in everything he posted, and I think I mostly got the timeline correct.

As you will see, both stopthefreezenj and I asked Derrell repeatedly what his qualifications are to serve on the EETF panel. He tried to hide behind the answer that we would have to ask the governor, since Christie appointed him. Obviously, that's really lame, so Derrell tried again:


Dyrnwyn Derrell Bradford
@
@jerseyjazzman never said that. Been working in Ed policy in NJ for almost a decade. Work with state and usdoe often. I am just not a tchr

jerseyjazzman Jersey Jazzman
@
@Dyrnwyn "Working in ed policy" could mean anything. Why should I, a working teacher with more than a decade actually teaching, trust you?


Dyrnwyn Derrell Bradford
@
@jerseyjazzman but tore asking why I was picked. Like unsaid. You'd have to ask the Gov.

jerseyjazzman Jersey Jazzman
@
@Dyrnwyn I'm not asking why you were picked - I'm asking why you are qualified to set policy. You have no practical or theoretical exp.
There is, of course, no good answer for Derrell to give: he holds no degrees in education or any related field, he has never taught or supervised in a pubic or private school, and has never published any research related to teacher evaluation. His sole work experience before E3 appears to be limited to editing a magazine about nightlife.

Yet my colleagues and I, who had to qualify to get our teaching licenses, spend our days actually doing the work that is supposed to be evaluated, and are represented in negotiations by the NJEA, did not get a representative at this table.

Can you understand how insulting it is that Derrell Bradford gets to shape policy that directly affects my job while I and every other NJEA member sits on the outside and waits for his edicts?

Worse, there is very little indication here that Derrell has even tried to address the very serious and legitimate concerns teachers and researchers have about the flaws in the new crop of teacher evaluation systems pushed by 'formers like Michele Rhee. I've been over the problems with Value-Added Modeling (VAM) over and over again on this blog, yet no one on this panel - especially Derrell - seems to have anything approaching the technical expertise able to address this central issue.

In fairness, Twitter is not a good forum for displaying your educational acumen. Maybe Derrell really is up on the statistical modeling used to create VAM ratings, but I have my doubts.

I'll also point out that this entire exchange started with stopthefreezeNJ's extremely important question about how to assess teachers whose students do not take standardized tests in their fields - and that, according to Bruce Baker, includes a great many teachers. Any indication Derrell or his cohorts have the ability to address this issue? Nope.

Finally - Derrell winds down the exchange with something I could almost perceive as a threat:
Dyrnwyn Derrell Bradford
@
@jerseyjazzman it's coming whether you like it or not. You should work to shape it, or it will shape you.
Now how exactly are my fellow teachers and I supposed to do that, Derrell, when you've taken OUR seat at the table?

**********
Twitter Exchange: January 29, 2011


stopthefreezeNJ DEFEND NJ PUBLIC ED!

Hey @Dyrnwyn, you guys got merit pay for gym teachers and inclusion specialists worked out yet?

Dyrnwyn Derrell Bradford
@
@stopthefreezeNJ working on assessments for them too. Teachers will be evaluated, fairly. And when I say teachers, I mean all of them.

jerseyjazzman Jersey Jazzman
@
@Dyrnwyn Teachers are already evaluated. Fair evals are thx to unionization and tenure. If you were a teacher you'd know that.


Dyrnwyn Derrell Bradford
@
@jerseyjazzman evaluation systems that grade everyone as satisfactory are ineffective. If you cared about evals you'd know that. #edreform

jerseyjazzman Jersey Jazzman
@
@Dyrnwyn Evals w/ 35% error rates not acceptable. 50% of teachers leave in first 5 yrs. Vast majority of "bad" teachers leave b4 get tenure


Dyrnwyn Derrell Bradford
@
@jerseyjazzman legit tchr protections have been perverted to advance NJEA economic interests. Both good and bad tchrs pay same amnt of dues.
jerseyjazzman Jersey Jazzman
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@Dyrnwyn Patronizing. Teachers perfectly capable of judging value of dues. No union = poor work conds, less pay. You want that?

jerseyjazzman Jersey Jazzman
@
@Dyrnwyn BTW what r your qualifications to serve on panel about teacher evaluations? Have you ever taught in public school? Any ed degrees?


Dyrnwyn Derrell Bradford
@
@jerseyjazzman five year attrition is manufactured. Young tchrs get tough schools and bad pay. Of course they leave.

jerseyjazzman Jersey Jazzman
@
@Dyrnwyn Glad to hear you are for better teacher pay. Tell Chris Christie when you see him not to slash pay through huge benefit contrib.


Dyrnwyn Derrell Bradford
@
@jerseyjazzman you're arguing for a new eval system. That's why I am working on one.

jerseyjazzman Jersey Jazzman
@
@Dyrnwyn So it won't include VAM, shown to have huge error rates?


Dyrnwyn Derrell Bradford
@
@jerseyjazzman I want great teachers rewarded. Decent teachers to have a chance to improve. And bad teachers gone. #edreform

jerseyjazzman Jersey Jazzman
@
@Dyrnwyn Everyone wants that. Support NJEA's tenure reform plan. 90 day limit on tenure cases.


Dyrnwyn Derrell Bradford
@
@jerseyjazzman union prioritizes all teachers the same regardless of talent. Do you want a system that makes teachers widgets?

jerseyjazzman Jersey Jazzman
@
@Dyrnwyn I want due process and fair evals. VAM is not fair.

Dyrnwyn Derrell Bradford
@
@FrankBeard @jerseyjazzman frank. You're right. Which is why we are gonna eval principals too. #edreform


Dyrnwyn Derrell Bradford
@
@jerseyjazzman don't buy the degree/process argument. Every teacher in Nj's worst schools is certified. Clearly it isn't a predictor.

Dyrnwyn Derrell Bradford
@
@FrankBeard @jerseyjazzman frank. I am with you. No one believes it but we want bad managers out of the picture...now.


Dyrnwyn Derrell Bradford
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@FrankBeard @jerseyjazzman No system is perfect. But ours must be better. Objective and subjective factors both considered.

jerseyjazzman Jersey Jazzman
@
@Dyrnwyn So I should just trust you and Christie? No thanks.


Dyrnwyn Derrell Bradford
@
@FrankBeard @jerseyjazzman it's not going to be just test scores. But they will be a part of it.

Dyrnwyn Derrell Bradford
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@jerseyjazzman I think you have to consider more pay ring also driven by eliminating bad teachers. Money Ill spent.

jerseyjazzman Jersey Jazzman
@
@Dyrnwyn Question stands - what are your qualifications to serve on panel? Have you ever taught?


Dyrnwyn Derrell Bradford
@
@jerseyjazzman csnt talk about specifics...I am under gag order :-(

jerseyjazzman Jersey Jazzman
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@FrankBeard Exact problem of VAM. Peer and supervisor evals best solution. And if you want best & brightest to teach - PAY THEM MORE!!!!


Dyrnwyn Derrell Bradford
@
@jerseyjazzman I think there's actually a plan to roll it out for teacher input after it's done. Either way, the ship has sailed.

Dyrnwyn Derrell Bradford
@
@jerseyjazzman you don't have to trust me, or @govchristie. See the plan and make your own decisions. Seems you've decided already though.

Dyrnwyn Derrell Bradford
@
@jerseyjazzman what we have now is not fair. neither system is perfect...but we can make one more precise than the scattershot we have now.

jerseyjazzman Jersey Jazzman
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@Dyrnwyn 35% is scattershot to me.


Dyrnwyn Derrell Bradford
@
@jerseyjazzman you're arguing that because it's not perfect we shouldn't do it. I don't buy that. Cane be better without being utopia.

jerseyjazzman Jersey Jazzman
@
@Dyrnwyn You assume "new" is better.


Dyrnwyn Derrell Bradford
@
@jerseyjazzman that reform plan...it wasn't even a good first step. more like standing up well...no motion.

jerseyjazzman Jersey Jazzman
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@Dyrnwyn That is not a serious rebuttal. What is your specific objection?


Dyrnwyn Derrell Bradford
@
@jerseyjazzman guild mentality is part of the problem. A person isn't a member of the education clique, and somehow they don't matter?

jerseyjazzman Jersey Jazzman
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@Dyrnwyn Very silly. What is specific objection to NJEA proposal?


Dyrnwyn Derrell Bradford
@
@DefeatNJBullies @govchristie @jerseyjazzman NJ bullies lives to spin anything I say. Comes from having nothing to contribute. So sad.

Dyrnwyn Derrell Bradford
@
@DefeatNJBullies ask @govchristie. PS. I am not the only non-teacher on there. Perhaps that is what you fear?

Dyrnwyn Derrell Bradford
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@DefeatNJBullies @govchristie @jerseyjazzman knowing you shouldn't teach does kids a favor. Be nice if others were as introspective.

Dyrnwyn Derrell Bradford

@jerseyjazzman btw...I didn't answer your question b/c I knew NJ bullies would answer it for you.

jerseyjazzman Jersey Jazzman
@
@Dyrnwyn You don't think I have legit question? What are your qualifications to serve on panel to develop evals of ME?

jerseyjazzman Jersey Jazzman
@
@Dyrnwyn You will affect MY job - what are your quaifications to do that?


stopthefreezeNJ DEFEND NJ PUBLIC ED!
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@Dyrnwyn how will those assessments account for factors teachers cannot control - poverty, attendance, trouble in the home, disability?

Dyrnwyn Derrell Bradford
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@jerseyjazzman I assume what we have is imperfect and needs to be chained.

jerseyjazzman Jersey Jazzman
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@momactivist I'm all for that, but how do you set it up when ONE teacher serves on gov's panel for teacher eval?


Dyrnwyn Derrell Bradford
@
@DefeatNJBullies good thing Microsoft has already. Against ai and real people. Makes sense huh?

Dyrnwyn Derrell Bradford
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@stopthefreezeNJ it's fun how folks Teot out Tesr Scores when great, bur when they are bad, results are beyond school control.

Dyrnwyn Derrell Bradford
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@stopthefreezeNJ to your point...growth and student weight.

Dyrnwyn Derrell Bradford
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@momactivist @jerseyjazzman I will give it to the great freely. Never to the terrible.

Dyrnwyn Derrell Bradford
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@momactivist @jerseyjazzman lots of talk about pd and @govchristie proposes master teacher for the best teachers.

jerseyjazzman Jersey Jazzman
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@Dyrnwyn OK - will you pay this person more than they make now?


Dyrnwyn Derrell Bradford
@
@jerseyjazzman like I said...ask the Governor.

jerseyjazzman Jersey Jazzman
@
@Dyrnwyn That's a terrible answer. I'm asking you - what do you bring to the table? Why should you have a say in my eval?

jerseyjazzman Jersey Jazzman
@
@Dyrnwyn If every kid deserves a great teacher, and great teachers should be paid more, will overall payroll of teachers rise when...

jerseyjazzman Jersey Jazzman
@
@Dyrnwyn ...we replace all "bad" teachers?


Dyrnwyn Derrell Bradford
@
@jerseyjazzman sorry. Which person?

jerseyjazzman Jersey Jazzman
@
@Dyrnwyn Will the master teacher make more? How much more?


Dyrnwyn Derrell Bradford
@
@jerseyjazzman it's the right answer. I did not pick me or any of the other people on task force.

jerseyjazzman Jersey Jazzman
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@Dyrnwyn So you can't even justify your own membership on this panel?


Dyrnwyn Derrell Bradford
@
@jerseyjazzman it could. But I think you'd have a solid argument for why it should then versus now.

Dyrnwyn Derrell Bradford
@
@jerseyjazzman not sure. This whole thing, of course, would require collective bargaining reform too.

jerseyjazzman Jersey Jazzman
@
@Dyrnwyn Well, now we're getting to it. You say you want better teachers, but you don't want to pay for them.

stopthefreezeNJ DEFEND NJ PUBLIC ED!

@Dyrnwyn Please answer @jerseyjazzman's question - what SPECIFICALLY qualifies u to determine how educators are evaluated. Cause celebre?

Dyrnwyn Derrell Bradford
@
@jerseyjazzman never said that. Been working in Ed policy in NJ for almost a decade. Work with state and usdoe often. I am just not a tchr

jerseyjazzman Jersey Jazzman
@
@Dyrnwyn "Working in ed policy" could mean anything. Why should I, a working teacher with more than a decade actually teaching, trust you?


Dyrnwyn Derrell Bradford
@
@jerseyjazzman but tore asking why I was picked. Like unsaid. You'd have to ask the Gov.

jerseyjazzman Jersey Jazzman
@
@Dyrnwyn I'm not asking why you were picked - I'm asking why you are qualified to set policy. You have no practical or theoretical exp.

jerseyjazzman Jersey Jazzman
@
@Dyrnwyn Yet you are on panel to tell him to do that. Why you? This is my career. Why you?

jerseyjazzman Jersey Jazzman
@
@Dyrnwyn OK Christie wants to slash teacher pay via pension/bene contributions. Do you support?

Dyrnwyn Derrell Bradford
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@jerseyjazzman also...I will not be evaluating you. Your school leader will be.

Dyrnwyn Derrell Bradford
@
@jerseyjazzman That's Your choice. I can inky tell you I am approaching insincerely and with a reattach respect for great teaching.

jerseyjazzman Jersey Jazzman
@
@Dyrnwyn That speaks to why you were chosen. I'm asking why you are qualified. Big difference. Do you have expertise in this area?


Dyrnwyn Derrell Bradford
@
@jerseyjazzman I disagree.

Dyrnwyn Derrell Bradford
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@jerseyjazzman I did not say that at all.

Dyrnwyn Derrell Bradford
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@jerseyjazzman likely because e3 and the Governor's policy agendas are enormously similar. Same world view in many cases.

Dyrnwyn Derrell Bradford
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@jerseyjazzman dude. Pensions are out of control everywhere in the country. Ds and Rs are all talking pension reform.

Dyrnwyn Derrell Bradford
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@jerseyjazzman there is one classroom teacher on the panel. I think I was chosen precisely b/c I don't have the exp you want.

Dyrnwyn Derrell Bradford
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@stopthefreezeNJ @jerseyjazzman nah...you're not going to get the answer you want. I am not a teacher and don't claim to be.

jerseyjazzman Jersey Jazzman
@
@Dyrnwyn You admit you have no experience. Will you be designing evals for air traffic controllers next?

stopthefreezeNJ DEFEND NJ PUBLIC ED!
@
@Dyrnwyn It's funny how 92% of NJ schools are proficient, yet u and your crew are gaming poverty so corporations can profit from education.

Dyrnwyn Derrell Bradford
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@stopthefreezeNJ @jerseyjazzman I don't share your world view...which has left thousands of terrible teachers in front of kids who need...

Dyrnwyn Derrell Bradford

@stopthefreezeNJ @jerseyjazzman ...the best. I think you can and should be judged and that test scores should be a part of it...

Dyrnwyn Derrell Bradford

@stopthefreezeNJ @jerseyjazzman I thikn the world is imperfect and that's not an excuse not to rework the teacher eval framework...

Dyrnwyn Derrell Bradford

stopthefreezeNJ @jerseyjazzman which at current is a joke that's so obvious I can't believe you try to defend it. 99.98% of NJ thcrs...

Dyrnwyn Derrell Bradford

@stopthefreezeNJ @jerseyjazzman ...are highly qualified? give me a break. Do you realize how destructive what you perpetuate is?

stopthefreezeNJ DEFEND NJ PUBLIC ED!
@
@Dyrnwyn @jerseyjazzman how abt just an answer of any type? What r ur qualifications? Don't NJ parents, kids & educators deserve an answer?


Dyrnwyn Derrell Bradford

stopthefreezeNJ @jerseyjazzman My qualifications? I care about your ability to move the needle on student achievement more than you do.

jerseyjazzman Jersey Jazzman

I'd laugh if this wasn't so sad. You say over and over the system for eval of teachers needs to be overhauled...

jerseyjazzman Jersey Jazzman

... you are appointed to a panel to do just that - and yet you can't say what qualifications you have to do the overhauling!


jerseyjazzman Jersey Jazzman

Can you understand why maybe - just maybe - us teachers - the ones actually DOING the teaching - doubt the sincerity of this effort?


stopthefreezeNJ DEFEND NJ PUBLIC ED!
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@Dyrnwyn Your argument relies on absurd assumptions - the most glaring being the notion that "bad teachers" plague urban cities.

stopthefreezeNJ DEFEND NJ PUBLIC ED!
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@Dyrnwyn You also cite cost without context - NJ is most expensive in most areas. This is your crew's MO - decontextualized info.


Dyrnwyn Derrell Bradford
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@stopthefreezeNJ you can pass an NJ assessment with a 50%. you've disguised failure as success for decades. Your proficiency is bogus.

Dyrnwyn Derrell Bradford
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@stopthefreezeNJ 80,000 kids are in schools you wouldn't send you dog to, but you have no answer for that but more time and more money.

Dyrnwyn Derrell Bradford
@
@stopthefreezeNJ you preside over the most expensive schools in america. But these kids pay the price with their lives. It's disgusting.

stopthefreezeNJ DEFEND NJ PUBLIC ED!
@
@Dyrnwyn BTW don't know why you say I 'preside' over anything. I certainly don't.

stopthefreezeNJ DEFEND NJ PUBLIC ED!

@Dyrnwyn and this entire time you have NO ANSWER for how to deal w mitigating factors: POVERTY, ADDICTION, HOME LIFE, DISABILITY. No answer.

Dyrnwyn Derrell Bradford

I suddenly understand, more than even I thought before, why @govchristie and the #njea will never be on the same page. #edreform

jerseyjazzman Jersey Jazzman
@
@Dyrnwyn BTW - don't question my commitment to student achievement. My whole career is dedicated to just that. I'm FAR more qualified...

Dyrnwyn Derrell Bradford
@
@stopthefreezeNJ not my assumption...try #edtrust.

Dyrnwyn Derrell Bradford
@
@DefeatNJBullies amazing ow the most expensive schools in US are underfunded. Stop reading right there.

Dyrnwyn Derrell Bradford
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@stopthefreezeNJ here is what the NJOSA does: http://tinyurl.com/482xyyx gonna send $340 mil to districts for kids they don't educate.

Dyrnwyn Derrell Bradford
@
@stopthefreezeNJ ridiculous...same line of reasoning that says NJ has low state share even though it's paying through the nose.

Dyrnwyn Derrell Bradford
@
@FrankBeard Weight for influence of other factors and measure growth. Teacher matter no matter the kids or their circumstances.

Dyrnwyn Derrell Bradford
@
@jerseyjazzman then you know what...you'll do just fine under the eval system.

jerseyjazzman Jersey Jazzman
@
@Dyrnwyn Why should I believe you on that?! You have no standing to reassure me. You may as well eval plumbers while you're at it.


Dyrnwyn Derrell Bradford
@
@jerseyjazzman whatever man. I've answered your question. You just don't find my quals sufficient. That's on you.

jerseyjazzman Jersey Jazzman
@
@Dyrnwyn Your quals are NOT sufficient. You have not EARNED the right to judge me.


Dyrnwyn Derrell Bradford
@
@FrankBeard seriously not there yet. Actually still reviewing other plans from across the country before moving to final recommendations.

stopthefreezeNJ DEFEND NJ PUBLIC ED!

@Dyrnwyn you are asked repeatedly what qualifies you to shape ed policy, your response was literally, "I care." Laughable. U r a tourist.

Dyrnwyn Derrell Bradford
@
@stopthefreezeNJ tourist. I love it.

Dyrnwyn Derrell Bradford

@stopthefreezeNJ @jerseyjazzman @frankbeard none of you will food just got here but it did. More than willing to pick it up 2mrw.

jerseyjazzman Jersey Jazzman
@
@Dyrnwyn @stopthefreezeNJ @frankbeard Enjoy your dinner. You are right - this is NOT over.


Dyrnwyn Derrell Bradford
@
@jerseyjazzman Like I said...I won't be...your principal will. And his super is gonna eval him. It is how it is. Sorry.

jerseyjazzman Jersey Jazzman
@
@Dyrnwyn My principal and my super ALREADY eval me. I just had my eval Friday! I'm doing a good job - and yet, CC thinks I make too much...


Dyrnwyn Derrell Bradford
@
@jerseyjazzman it's coming whether you like it or not. You should work to shape it, or it will shape you.

jerseyjazzman Jersey Jazzman
@
@Dyrnwyn Derrell, trust me - I am working hard to shape it. And I've EARNED the right to shape it.


Dyrnwyn Derrell Bradford
@
@jerseyjazzman @stopthefreezeNJ @frankbeard fine with me. I have a 5-1 in JC on Monday. No stranger to high odds...like 120,000 on 1.

stopthefreezeNJ DEFEND NJ PUBLIC ED!
@
@Dyrnwyn @jerseyjazzman @frankbeard so we are clear, no answer re: qualifications. Goodnight.

stopthefreezeNJ DEFEND NJ PUBLIC ED!
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@Dyrnwyn @jerseyjazzman @frankbeard and also no answer re: how to account for poverty, disability, home life, etc. Weak and embarrassing.

stopthefreezeNJ DEFEND NJ PUBLIC ED!

Public non-answers on ed "reform" from @GovChristie and @Dyrnwyn piling up. Can't edit twitter, guys.



4 comments:

wideawakeinNJ said...

As you say, Twitter isn't the best forum for this type of discussion.. but the main points are certainly evident - that unqualified, ill-informed parties are calling all the shots with glee.

Thanks for your attempts to open the dialogue and express some of the frustrations felt by those of us who have spent a lifetime in a career... one that has often been measured by criteria that makes no sense, by people who have no clue, and by political trends driven by greed and self over what's good for our communities, etc. Keep up the good work.

Lisa said...

Bradford believes that 87% of a child's first 18 years doesn't matter to/affect the remaining 13%???!!

Bradford put forth that typical, ridiculous--and proven false--statement that only teachers "matter" to a child's learning, not the kid or the kid's circumstances. Ridiculous to any thinking (honest) person. He said, "Teacher matter no matter the kids or their circumstances."

Yes, teachers matter. They do an AMAZING job considering they have only 13% of their students' wakeful time from birth to 18 in which to educate them. How can any thinking person believe that 87% of a child's life, i.e. his "circumstances,"--over which teachers have no control-- don't matter, don't affect his learning?

Aside from the obvious, over which teachers have no control, (hunger, malnutrition, poor health--physical and mental--, lack of sleep, neglect, abuse, little or no English experience, homes lacking books, literacy, HEAT, etc.), students are taught by teachers only 13% of their 18 years.

Yep, 13%! Assuming a generous 9 hours of sleep, there are 98,550 waking hours in 18 years. Assuming 5.5 hours of instruction for 182 days over 13 years (assuming NO ABSENCES), that's 13,013 hours, which is 13% of 98,550.

ANYONE who believes that 87% of a child's life is "no matter" to his education is ridiculous. Or ignorant. Or lying.

Or, is he saying that the 87% of a student's life, which he knows affects a student's success in school, will have no effect ON A TEACHER'S EVALUATION, on whether or not a teacher is deemed "good", and on whether or not a teacher is fired?

If so, how can he say such an evaluation matters at all--with a straight face?

Duke said...

Thanks wideawake - I appreciate that.

Duke said...

Lisa - good stuff. I had a post last year along the same lines, but using the same kind of math to calculate the cost per kid per hour of a teacher. I should dig it out.

As always, thanks for dropping by.