I've written before about Derrell Bradford, Executive Director of Excellent Education for Everyone (E3), and how he was appointed to Chris Christie's "Education Effectiveness Task Force," despite his complete lack of practical teaching experience, technical knowledge, or academic expertise.
You would think that a guy like Derrell and I don't have much in common; turns out we both had nothing better to do last night than engage in a Twitter exchange.
I've posted it below, but understand: trying to read a Twitter conversation is like trying to make sense of e. e. cummings translated into Martian. People keep jumping in, you don't know who is responding to what - it's a big mess. A couple of other posters including stopthefreezenj, frankbeard, and DefeatNJBullies jumped in, and the whole thing got a little chaotic. The fact is Twitter is a very bad forum on which to discuss this stuff.
I think I'm fair to Derrell in the transcription below, but you can always go to his own Twitter feed and judge for yourself. I kept in everything he posted, and I think I mostly got the timeline correct.
As you will see, both stopthefreezenj and I asked Derrell repeatedly what his qualifications are to serve on the EETF panel. He tried to hide behind the answer that we would have to ask the governor, since Christie appointed him. Obviously, that's really lame, so Derrell tried again:
There is, of course, no good answer for Derrell to give: he holds no degrees in education or any related field, he has never taught or supervised in a pubic or private school, and has never published any research related to teacher evaluation. His sole work experience before E3 appears to be limited to editing a magazine about nightlife.
@@jerseyjazzman never said that. Been working in Ed policy in NJ for almost a decade. Work with state and usdoe often. I am just not a tchr
@@Dyrnwyn "Working in ed policy" could mean anything. Why should I, a working teacher with more than a decade actually teaching, trust you?
@@jerseyjazzman but tore asking why I was picked. Like unsaid. You'd have to ask the Gov.
@@Dyrnwyn I'm not asking why you were picked - I'm asking why you are qualified to set policy. You have no practical or theoretical exp.
Yet my colleagues and I, who had to qualify to get our teaching licenses, spend our days actually doing the work that is supposed to be evaluated, and are represented in negotiations by the NJEA, did not get a representative at this table.
Can you understand how insulting it is that Derrell Bradford gets to shape policy that directly affects my job while I and every other NJEA member sits on the outside and waits for his edicts?
Worse, there is very little indication here that Derrell has even tried to address the very serious and legitimate concerns teachers and researchers have about the flaws in the new crop of teacher evaluation systems pushed by 'formers like Michele Rhee. I've been over the problems with Value-Added Modeling (VAM) over and over again on this blog, yet no one on this panel - especially Derrell - seems to have anything approaching the technical expertise able to address this central issue.
In fairness, Twitter is not a good forum for displaying your educational acumen. Maybe Derrell really is up on the statistical modeling used to create VAM ratings, but I have my doubts.
I'll also point out that this entire exchange started with stopthefreezeNJ's extremely important question about how to assess teachers whose students do not take standardized tests in their fields - and that, according to Bruce Baker, includes a great many teachers. Any indication Derrell or his cohorts have the ability to address this issue? Nope.
Finally - Derrell winds down the exchange with something I could almost perceive as a threat:
Now how exactly are my fellow teachers and I supposed to do that, Derrell, when you've taken OUR seat at the table?@@jerseyjazzman it's coming whether you like it or not. You should work to shape it, or it will shape you.
**********
Twitter Exchange: January 29, 2011
Hey @Dyrnwyn, you guys got merit pay for gym teachers and inclusion specialists worked out yet?
@
@stopthefreezeNJ working on assessments for them too. Teachers will be evaluated, fairly. And when I say teachers, I mean all of them.
@
@Dyrnwyn Teachers are already evaluated. Fair evals are thx to unionization and tenure. If you were a teacher you'd know that.
@
@jerseyjazzman evaluation systems that grade everyone as satisfactory are ineffective. If you cared about evals you'd know that. #edreform
@
@Dyrnwyn Evals w/ 35% error rates not acceptable. 50% of teachers leave in first 5 yrs. Vast majority of "bad" teachers leave b4 get tenure
@
@jerseyjazzman legit tchr protections have been perverted to advance NJEA economic interests. Both good and bad tchrs pay same amnt of dues.
@
@Dyrnwyn Patronizing. Teachers perfectly capable of judging value of dues. No union = poor work conds, less pay. You want that?
@
@Dyrnwyn BTW what r your qualifications to serve on panel about teacher evaluations? Have you ever taught in public school? Any ed degrees?
@
@jerseyjazzman five year attrition is manufactured. Young tchrs get tough schools and bad pay. Of course they leave.
@
@Dyrnwyn Glad to hear you are for better teacher pay. Tell Chris Christie when you see him not to slash pay through huge benefit contrib.
@
@jerseyjazzman you're arguing for a new eval system. That's why I am working on one.
@
@Dyrnwyn So it won't include VAM, shown to have huge error rates?
@
@jerseyjazzman I want great teachers rewarded. Decent teachers to have a chance to improve. And bad teachers gone. #edreform
@
@Dyrnwyn Everyone wants that. Support NJEA's tenure reform plan. 90 day limit on tenure cases.
@
@jerseyjazzman union prioritizes all teachers the same regardless of talent. Do you want a system that makes teachers widgets?
@
@Dyrnwyn I want due process and fair evals. VAM is not fair.
@
@FrankBeard @jerseyjazzman frank. You're right. Which is why we are gonna eval principals too. #edreform
@
@jerseyjazzman don't buy the degree/process argument. Every teacher in Nj's worst schools is certified. Clearly it isn't a predictor.
@
@FrankBeard @jerseyjazzman frank. I am with you. No one believes it but we want bad managers out of the picture...now.
@
@FrankBeard @jerseyjazzman No system is perfect. But ours must be better. Objective and subjective factors both considered.
@
@Dyrnwyn So I should just trust you and Christie? No thanks.
@
@FrankBeard @jerseyjazzman it's not going to be just test scores. But they will be a part of it.
@
@jerseyjazzman I think you have to consider more pay ring also driven by eliminating bad teachers. Money Ill spent.
@
@Dyrnwyn Question stands - what are your qualifications to serve on panel? Have you ever taught?
@
@jerseyjazzman csnt talk about specifics...I am under gag order :-(
@
@FrankBeard Exact problem of VAM. Peer and supervisor evals best solution. And if you want best & brightest to teach - PAY THEM MORE!!!!
@
@jerseyjazzman I think there's actually a plan to roll it out for teacher input after it's done. Either way, the ship has sailed.
@
@jerseyjazzman you don't have to trust me, or @govchristie. See the plan and make your own decisions. Seems you've decided already though.
@
@jerseyjazzman what we have now is not fair. neither system is perfect...but we can make one more precise than the scattershot we have now.
@
@Dyrnwyn 35% is scattershot to me.
@
@jerseyjazzman you're arguing that because it's not perfect we shouldn't do it. I don't buy that. Cane be better without being utopia.
@
@Dyrnwyn You assume "new" is better.
@
@jerseyjazzman that reform plan...it wasn't even a good first step. more like standing up well...no motion.
@
@Dyrnwyn That is not a serious rebuttal. What is your specific objection?
@
@jerseyjazzman guild mentality is part of the problem. A person isn't a member of the education clique, and somehow they don't matter?
@
@Dyrnwyn Very silly. What is specific objection to NJEA proposal?
@
@DefeatNJBullies @govchristie @jerseyjazzman NJ bullies lives to spin anything I say. Comes from having nothing to contribute. So sad.
@
@DefeatNJBullies ask @govchristie. PS. I am not the only non-teacher on there. Perhaps that is what you fear?
@
@DefeatNJBullies @govchristie @jerseyjazzman knowing you shouldn't teach does kids a favor. Be nice if others were as introspective.
@jerseyjazzman btw...I didn't answer your question b/c I knew NJ bullies would answer it for you.
@
@Dyrnwyn You don't think I have legit question? What are your qualifications to serve on panel to develop evals of ME?
@
@Dyrnwyn You will affect MY job - what are your quaifications to do that?
@
@Dyrnwyn how will those assessments account for factors teachers cannot control - poverty, attendance, trouble in the home, disability?
@
@jerseyjazzman I assume what we have is imperfect and needs to be chained.
@
@momactivist I'm all for that, but how do you set it up when ONE teacher serves on gov's panel for teacher eval?
@
@DefeatNJBullies good thing Microsoft has already. Against ai and real people. Makes sense huh?
@
@stopthefreezeNJ it's fun how folks Teot out Tesr Scores when great, bur when they are bad, results are beyond school control.
@
@stopthefreezeNJ to your point...growth and student weight.
@
@momactivist @jerseyjazzman I will give it to the great freely. Never to the terrible.
@
@momactivist @jerseyjazzman lots of talk about pd and @govchristie proposes master teacher for the best teachers.
@
@Dyrnwyn OK - will you pay this person more than they make now?
@
@jerseyjazzman like I said...ask the Governor.
@
@Dyrnwyn That's a terrible answer. I'm asking you - what do you bring to the table? Why should you have a say in my eval?
@
@Dyrnwyn If every kid deserves a great teacher, and great teachers should be paid more, will overall payroll of teachers rise when...
@
@Dyrnwyn ...we replace all "bad" teachers?
@
@jerseyjazzman sorry. Which person?
@
@Dyrnwyn Will the master teacher make more? How much more?
@
@jerseyjazzman it's the right answer. I did not pick me or any of the other people on task force.
@
@Dyrnwyn So you can't even justify your own membership on this panel?
@
@jerseyjazzman it could. But I think you'd have a solid argument for why it should then versus now.
@
@jerseyjazzman not sure. This whole thing, of course, would require collective bargaining reform too.
@
@Dyrnwyn Well, now we're getting to it. You say you want better teachers, but you don't want to pay for them.
@Dyrnwyn Please answer @jerseyjazzman's question - what SPECIFICALLY qualifies u to determine how educators are evaluated. Cause celebre?
@
@jerseyjazzman never said that. Been working in Ed policy in NJ for almost a decade. Work with state and usdoe often. I am just not a tchr
@
@Dyrnwyn "Working in ed policy" could mean anything. Why should I, a working teacher with more than a decade actually teaching, trust you?
@
@jerseyjazzman but tore asking why I was picked. Like unsaid. You'd have to ask the Gov.
@
@Dyrnwyn I'm not asking why you were picked - I'm asking why you are qualified to set policy. You have no practical or theoretical exp.
@
@Dyrnwyn Yet you are on panel to tell him to do that. Why you? This is my career. Why you?
@
@Dyrnwyn OK Christie wants to slash teacher pay via pension/bene contributions. Do you support?
@
@jerseyjazzman also...I will not be evaluating you. Your school leader will be.
@
@jerseyjazzman That's Your choice. I can inky tell you I am approaching insincerely and with a reattach respect for great teaching.
@
@Dyrnwyn That speaks to why you were chosen. I'm asking why you are qualified. Big difference. Do you have expertise in this area?
@
@jerseyjazzman I disagree.
@
@jerseyjazzman I did not say that at all.
@
@jerseyjazzman likely because e3 and the Governor's policy agendas are enormously similar. Same world view in many cases.
@
@jerseyjazzman dude. Pensions are out of control everywhere in the country. Ds and Rs are all talking pension reform.
@
@jerseyjazzman there is one classroom teacher on the panel. I think I was chosen precisely b/c I don't have the exp you want.
@
@stopthefreezeNJ @jerseyjazzman nah...you're not going to get the answer you want. I am not a teacher and don't claim to be.
@
@Dyrnwyn You admit you have no experience. Will you be designing evals for air traffic controllers next?
@
@Dyrnwyn It's funny how 92% of NJ schools are proficient, yet u and your crew are gaming poverty so corporations can profit from education.
@
@stopthefreezeNJ @jerseyjazzman I don't share your world view...which has left thousands of terrible teachers in front of kids who need...
@stopthefreezeNJ @jerseyjazzman ...the best. I think you can and should be judged and that test scores should be a part of it...
@stopthefreezeNJ @jerseyjazzman I thikn the world is imperfect and that's not an excuse not to rework the teacher eval framework...
stopthefreezeNJ @jerseyjazzman which at current is a joke that's so obvious I can't believe you try to defend it. 99.98% of NJ thcrs...
@stopthefreezeNJ @jerseyjazzman ...are highly qualified? give me a break. Do you realize how destructive what you perpetuate is?
@
@Dyrnwyn @jerseyjazzman how abt just an answer of any type? What r ur qualifications? Don't NJ parents, kids & educators deserve an answer?
stopthefreezeNJ @jerseyjazzman My qualifications? I care about your ability to move the needle on student achievement more than you do.
I'd laugh if this wasn't so sad. You say over and over the system for eval of teachers needs to be overhauled...
... you are appointed to a panel to do just that - and yet you can't say what qualifications you have to do the overhauling!
Can you understand why maybe - just maybe - us teachers - the ones actually DOING the teaching - doubt the sincerity of this effort?
@
@Dyrnwyn Your argument relies on absurd assumptions - the most glaring being the notion that "bad teachers" plague urban cities.
@
@Dyrnwyn You also cite cost without context - NJ is most expensive in most areas. This is your crew's MO - decontextualized info.
@
@stopthefreezeNJ you can pass an NJ assessment with a 50%. you've disguised failure as success for decades. Your proficiency is bogus.
@
@stopthefreezeNJ 80,000 kids are in schools you wouldn't send you dog to, but you have no answer for that but more time and more money.
@
@stopthefreezeNJ you preside over the most expensive schools in america. But these kids pay the price with their lives. It's disgusting.
@
@Dyrnwyn BTW don't know why you say I 'preside' over anything. I certainly don't.
@Dyrnwyn and this entire time you have NO ANSWER for how to deal w mitigating factors: POVERTY, ADDICTION, HOME LIFE, DISABILITY. No answer.
I suddenly understand, more than even I thought before, why @govchristie and the #njea will never be on the same page. #edreform
@
@Dyrnwyn BTW - don't question my commitment to student achievement. My whole career is dedicated to just that. I'm FAR more qualified...
@
@stopthefreezeNJ not my assumption...try #edtrust.
@
@DefeatNJBullies amazing ow the most expensive schools in US are underfunded. Stop reading right there.
@
@stopthefreezeNJ here is what the NJOSA does: http://tinyurl.com/482xyyx gonna send $340 mil to districts for kids they don't educate.
@
@stopthefreezeNJ ridiculous...same line of reasoning that says NJ has low state share even though it's paying through the nose.
@
@FrankBeard Weight for influence of other factors and measure growth. Teacher matter no matter the kids or their circumstances.
@
@jerseyjazzman then you know what...you'll do just fine under the eval system.
@
@Dyrnwyn Why should I believe you on that?! You have no standing to reassure me. You may as well eval plumbers while you're at it.
@
@jerseyjazzman whatever man. I've answered your question. You just don't find my quals sufficient. That's on you.
@
@Dyrnwyn Your quals are NOT sufficient. You have not EARNED the right to judge me.
@
@FrankBeard seriously not there yet. Actually still reviewing other plans from across the country before moving to final recommendations.
@Dyrnwyn you are asked repeatedly what qualifies you to shape ed policy, your response was literally, "I care." Laughable. U r a tourist.
@
@stopthefreezeNJ tourist. I love it.
@stopthefreezeNJ @jerseyjazzman @frankbeard none of you will food just got here but it did. More than willing to pick it up 2mrw.
@
@Dyrnwyn @stopthefreezeNJ @frankbeard Enjoy your dinner. You are right - this is NOT over.
@
@jerseyjazzman Like I said...I won't be...your principal will. And his super is gonna eval him. It is how it is. Sorry.
@
@Dyrnwyn My principal and my super ALREADY eval me. I just had my eval Friday! I'm doing a good job - and yet, CC thinks I make too much...
@
@jerseyjazzman it's coming whether you like it or not. You should work to shape it, or it will shape you.
@
@Dyrnwyn Derrell, trust me - I am working hard to shape it. And I've EARNED the right to shape it.
@
@jerseyjazzman @stopthefreezeNJ @frankbeard fine with me. I have a 5-1 in JC on Monday. No stranger to high odds...like 120,000 on 1.
@
@Dyrnwyn @jerseyjazzman @frankbeard so we are clear, no answer re: qualifications. Goodnight.
@
@Dyrnwyn @jerseyjazzman @frankbeard and also no answer re: how to account for poverty, disability, home life, etc. Weak and embarrassing.
Public non-answers on ed "reform" from @GovChristie and @Dyrnwyn piling up. Can't edit twitter, guys.
As you say, Twitter isn't the best forum for this type of discussion.. but the main points are certainly evident - that unqualified, ill-informed parties are calling all the shots with glee.
ReplyDeleteThanks for your attempts to open the dialogue and express some of the frustrations felt by those of us who have spent a lifetime in a career... one that has often been measured by criteria that makes no sense, by people who have no clue, and by political trends driven by greed and self over what's good for our communities, etc. Keep up the good work.
Bradford believes that 87% of a child's first 18 years doesn't matter to/affect the remaining 13%???!!
ReplyDeleteBradford put forth that typical, ridiculous--and proven false--statement that only teachers "matter" to a child's learning, not the kid or the kid's circumstances. Ridiculous to any thinking (honest) person. He said, "Teacher matter no matter the kids or their circumstances."
Yes, teachers matter. They do an AMAZING job considering they have only 13% of their students' wakeful time from birth to 18 in which to educate them. How can any thinking person believe that 87% of a child's life, i.e. his "circumstances,"--over which teachers have no control-- don't matter, don't affect his learning?
Aside from the obvious, over which teachers have no control, (hunger, malnutrition, poor health--physical and mental--, lack of sleep, neglect, abuse, little or no English experience, homes lacking books, literacy, HEAT, etc.), students are taught by teachers only 13% of their 18 years.
Yep, 13%! Assuming a generous 9 hours of sleep, there are 98,550 waking hours in 18 years. Assuming 5.5 hours of instruction for 182 days over 13 years (assuming NO ABSENCES), that's 13,013 hours, which is 13% of 98,550.
ANYONE who believes that 87% of a child's life is "no matter" to his education is ridiculous. Or ignorant. Or lying.
Or, is he saying that the 87% of a student's life, which he knows affects a student's success in school, will have no effect ON A TEACHER'S EVALUATION, on whether or not a teacher is deemed "good", and on whether or not a teacher is fired?
If so, how can he say such an evaluation matters at all--with a straight face?
Thanks wideawake - I appreciate that.
ReplyDeleteLisa - good stuff. I had a post last year along the same lines, but using the same kind of math to calculate the cost per kid per hour of a teacher. I should dig it out.
ReplyDeleteAs always, thanks for dropping by.