tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9025948832913694345.post3771955781849825257..comments2024-03-22T02:15:56.280-07:00Comments on Jersey Jazzman: An Exchange With Jonah RockoffDukehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16535645107179796099noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9025948832913694345.post-68101059973562034772013-06-23T13:37:46.013-07:002013-06-23T13:37:46.013-07:00As usual, you can on me to take an arguement about...As usual, you can on me to take an arguement about data into the very subjective arena of whats happening in my pilot school in Camden right now, where I notified in a text message from my principal on June 17th that she submitted a request for my termination because I was non- responsive to her suggestions. I will counter that my evaluations this year, heavily monitored by the RACs in a Danielson Pilot school point irrefutably in the opposite direction, in that the first one was Satisfactory, the second incorporated my principal's suggestions and resulted in a slightly higher score, and the 3rd was through the roof "highly effective". Under normal circumstances none of this would matter one whit since I'm untenured an my union "has no obligation to untenured teachers". I think my attny's access to uncorrupted data collected by the state in my school will support Mr Rockoff's musings about principals' subjective evaluations of teachers differing wildly from actual data - A LOT.Mrs. King's music studentshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05211235832988015448noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9025948832913694345.post-10406536493873476582013-06-22T14:07:15.102-07:002013-06-22T14:07:15.102-07:00To the contrary, Deb, you are very concise and exa...To the contrary, Deb, you are very concise and exactly right. Subject of an upcoming post...Dukehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16535645107179796099noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9025948832913694345.post-7540103303584249332013-06-20T20:07:12.595-07:002013-06-20T20:07:12.595-07:00To me one of the most stark realizations coming ou...To me one of the most stark realizations coming out of this truly fascinating dialogue, is how complex and inaccessible these evaluation methods are to those being evaluated. (And I mean no disrespect here to any teacher. But I think we can agree that the Duke's understanding is above average). <br /><br />Apart from the many legitimate points of concerns raised by Duke here, one of my many concerns is the intentional use of systems that appear to me, too complicated to access by those using or dependent on them -- and here I include evaluations, the new school report cards, etc. This is how teachers, parents and students eventually, if not already, feel disempowered, disenfranchised and disillusioned. <br /><br />The insanity of the data driven reform which runs the gamut from student privacy to teacher evaluations is deeply disturbing to me. Insidious. As Duke points out in his argument that if we not fostering new excellent teachers, what good does it do to identify the bad ones, data demonstrates many things but alone solves nothing. In our current culture of reform data is being used to drive an agenda not seek solutions. <br /><br />Sadly our discussions in education focus on these data debates and not nearly enough on the actual methods to solve (not identify) problems. From my unscientific survey, these evaluations may, or may not, identify good and not so good teachers but does nothing to foster success in the classroom and certainly do not foster trust, morale and confidence among teachers we hope will excel.<br /><br />I've gone on far too long. My apologiesDebhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01003814941132010913noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9025948832913694345.post-22127225360643016682013-06-20T04:06:20.415-07:002013-06-20T04:06:20.415-07:00This was really interesting. And while I am not u...This was really interesting. And while I am not up on my education policy (at this level, anyway), I know a fair amount about sports. <br /><br />Batting average is a really good metaphor for test data because batting average is incredibly inefficient. The point of moneyball was not that teams weren't using data, it's that the data they were using was terrible. This is how we got OBP and other really complicated measures.<br /><br />And, as you wrote, that still assumes a concrete, agreed up on goal. andrewsaltzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14645525233404344536noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9025948832913694345.post-42052884871283403152013-06-19T20:31:10.393-07:002013-06-19T20:31:10.393-07:00I'd have to go back and reread CFR, Sherman. A...I'd have to go back and reread CFR, Sherman. Are you talking about the part of the paper where they look at grade-level scores? They looked at the effect of moving a high-VA teacher into a different school and then watching the grade level scores rise, which would suggest that the teacher wasn't merely benefitting from cream-skimming when getting a high VA score.<br /><br />Rockoff did talk about that part of the paper in his testimony. But I don't know how you implement this in a practical way. Or are you referring to something else?<br /><br />FWIW, I get the sense that Dr. Rockoff came in to talk about his research, and how it could inform NJDOE's plans. But I definitely didn't get the sense he was there doing a program evaluation of AchieveNJ. More on that later...<br /><br />Thanks for posting.<br />Dukehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16535645107179796099noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9025948832913694345.post-83037542111357322002013-06-19T19:50:32.276-07:002013-06-19T19:50:32.276-07:00This is a bit into the weeds, but since you're...This is a bit into the weeds, but since you're already there... one of the items in the CFR paper is a method they devised to test whether assignment of students within a school was random (i.e., a diagnostic that didn't require the type of falsification test Jesse Rothstein used to argue that VAM in most elementary schools ignored nonrandom assignment).<br /><br />My guess from your and Bruce's posts is that Rockoff did NOT say anything in his testimony to urge that NJDOE perform the diagnostic that he and his colleagues devised and even displayed the code for in the paper. Am I right? And if so, why didn't Rockoff urge NJDOE to take that simple step to address the concerns teachers would have about nonrandom assignment? Sherman Dornhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00491045214079619658noreply@blogger.com